Yeshua Yoshia - Yahweh Saves His People

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Rebuttal #2: Jesus’ Identity

#2 Objection: WTJW’s teach that Jesus is a created (“a” God) being rather than having the full deity of God the Father. That is, they say Jehovah created him and then through him created all things by him and for him. They say Jesus (the pre-Jesus WORD) was the “master worker” (Proverbs 8) created by and working alongside Jehovah God in the creation. Essentially, they say that Jesus is not Jehovah God, rather he is a separate creation. It is true the WORD was the means by which Jehovah God made all things (John 1:1-3), but not that The WORD was a “created” being. Jesus, as the Logos, was with God in the beginning and HE was God as a part of the Godhead. The WORD always existed. Jesus even said “before Abraham was, I AM.” Jesus was the name of the human being made by The Holy Spirit when the WORD (Logos) was put into Mary. He was fully man (from Mary) and he was fully God (The WORD.) HE was God with us (Emanuel). God had entered into his creation as a man.

John 1:1-3 NKJV

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Col 2:9 BSB

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.

Jesus is the God that made us, since it is his pre-earthly existence as the “WORD” that was in the beginning with God and is the God of John 1:3. While in the Hebrew scriptures and Greek, the word “create” and “made” can be used in different applications. But, in Isaiah 43:7 “everyone who is called by my name, and whom I have created for my glory, whom I have formed, yes, whom I have made” seems to indicate and interchangeable word between create and made. There are many scriptures that indicate Jesus is Jehovah and Jehovah is the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit as one God such that we can conclude we have One God that has expressed himself in three main personages or manifestations. None of these three expressions existed before the other since they are all the one God at the same time. All are eternal and without beginning or end.

And suppose Jesus, the pre-earthly WORD and was created, how then can John 1:3 be true? If all things that were made were made by HIM, then how could or why would HE make Himself? In other words, if Jesus, as the WORD, made all things and nothing that was made was made except through him, how could he make himself? That doesn’t make sense that he would make himself.

Therefore, the scripture is true, and Jesus as the WORD was NOT created but IS the means/aspect God (The Father) used to create all things. The WORD is an integral part of the Godhead (Col 2:9 see NKJV.) From scripture we further know that the WORD became flesh and dwelt among man in the form of Jesus, the man.

John 1:14 NKJV

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is why Jesus is called the Son of God AND the Son of Man. He is both at the same time. God created Adam by breathing new life into him. But he “begot” Jesus by inserting part of Himself, known as the WORD, into Mary by means of His Holy Spirit. He produced a human being that had his supernatural essence and therefore The Father became a part of his own previous creation. The man Jesus was both Man and God. His pre-earthly existence was the creator God, THE WORD (see also John 8:58.)

From John1:1-4, we can see that it was the WORD that was “with” God in the beginning and all things were made through the WORD.

Or, for all intents and purposes, he, Jesus, is the agent of OUR CREATION! He is fully God! He pre-existed as the WORD and the WORD was God. But he became Son of God AND Son of Man when he became the blended creation of the WORD as placed inside Mary by The Holy Spirit; thus, HE was called Emmanuel, meaning “God with us.” The Bible makes it clear through scripture that Jesus is not just divine in nature, but is THE essential God Spirit (John 4:24, 1 John 5:20.) But he is not The FATHER. His role was Creator, Savior, and King.

John 1:1-3 NKJV

The WORD (pre-Jesus) was NOT created because there is no account in the scripture to say so. In Proverbs 8:24-25 some take the words “I was brought forth” to validate their claim that Jesus was the first creation of Jehovah God and was his “master worker.” However, in Proverbs 8 verse 22 NKJV, the word to identify Wisdom is “possession.” It says God, "Possessed” him in the beginning…that he was established from everlasting (verse 23). The word "Possession" is not equal in meaning to "created.”

If Wisdom was established from everlasting, then that means there was no beginning to Wisdom. Even if we say the word “established” means or implies an event occurred to bring HIM into existence, we then would be ignoring that ALL THINGS were created by the WORD (Pre-Jesus God) (See Col 1:16-17) and nothing was created except that which was created by him. So, in other words, If Jehovah God used the WORD to create all things, then it necessarily means that The WORD (Pre-Jesus) created Wisdom (if Wisdom was created.) But Wisdom was not created at all because we are told Wisdom was established from everlasting (no beginning.) Wisdom is not a personage. Wisdom is Divine Wisdom. God possessed Divine Wisdom from the beginning. He created the universe using his divine wisdom.

Col 1:16-17 NKJV

16For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

“Possession” is elementally integral to God Himself. It would be like me saying I used my hand to create a drawing. Is my hand separate from me? No, it is integral to me. Yet if someone asks who did that drawing, do they answer “his hand?” No, they say “he” (insert my name) did that drawing. Can my hand exist before my body or can my body exist separate from my hand? No, they are part of the same ME. The WORD (Logos) was the means by which God created the heavens and the earth and was with God in the beginning and is God. When Jehovah God existed, the WORD existed and both as ONE possessed divine wisdom in the design and creation of the universe. (John 1:1, 1:14, 8:58, 10:30, Titus 2:13 Job 38:5-7.)

In John 1:1 we see the WORD was with God in the “beginning.” Does the beginning mean the beginning of the creation of the universe and the earth or is the “beginning” even before that? In other words, did anything exist before God created the heavens and the earth? We don’t know more than the scriptures tell us. They tell us that the WORD was with Him in the beginning when God created the Heavens and the Earth. The Watchtower interprets John 1:1 to mean that prior to the creation of the world, Jesus did not exist but rather was created prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth so that God could create all the heavens and the earth using him. Before that, the Word didn’t necessarily exist, with God. It’s a hard argument to follow. But I had an elder say that “in the beginning” referred to in John 1:1 is saying, it implies THE beginning of Jesus (the WORD). But that is not what the scripture says. We already know that Jesus (The WORD) is God. This is another attempt to twist scripture to support their theology that Jesus as the WORD was a created being. But they are teaching a “different Jesus.” Just trust the scriptures.

2 Cor 11:3-4

3I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.

We know Jesus is the WORD spoken of in John 1:1-3. The WORD created all things per John 1:3. The WORD did not create Himself. Therefore, the WORD is God; and the creator was with God (The Father) in the Beginning…just as the scripture says. While Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega (Isa 44:6 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated,) meaning infinite and complete, so Jesus says he is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev 1:8, Rev 22:13) and he said "before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58.) The WORD is the God and Jehovah is God and both are the same God. Jehovah the memorial name of God who is The Father and is Jesus the son and Messiah. Both the WORD and The Father are Jehovah and also is the Holy Spirit. All three are the elemental aspects/expressions of the ONE GOD.

John 17:3

3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Col 2:9KJV

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:17-20

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

We know the WORD emptied himself (Philippians 2:5-8) and took on the form of a man in humble obedience to the Father’s will. For, while he is our creator, he did all his works in complete unison with The Father. The Father used HIM to create the universe. He was there in the beginning with the Father. He was not made. He is our God; he is also the Son of God, yet is not the Father. (John 5:19.) When The WORD became a man, he became a new creation, named Jesus. When Jesus was resurrected, he also then became a new creation, a life-giving spirit (1 Cor 15:45.) He was raised up from the dead into a spiritual body (notice both words used…spiritual and body.)

John 20:27-29 BSB

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Like angel messengers that transformed from invisible spirit creatures into the likeness of men (re: at Sodom and Gomorrah) and then back into spirit creatures, our Jesus is like that except he continues to have the body of a man and a spirit creature all at the same time (a new creation) forever. He can eat while on earth, but his body does not have the normal bodily functions as we do. That is why Thomas could see and feel the holes in him from the cross and he could also eat with his disciples after his resurrection. The resurrected Jesus could also walk through walls. That is the spiritual body type we will be given after our resurrection. It is the same spiritual body type that those living upon his return will be “changed into” in the twinkling of the eye. It is not a corruptible body like we now have. It is an incorruptible body. It will allow us as the believers to have eternal bodies that can move between heaven and earth. It is a spiritual body that will never die.

#2 Recap: The WORD is a part/essence/exact representation of the Father, not a separate created God. When the WORD became flesh, he was named Jesus, who by going to the cross became the Christ. Later, he was raised from the dead and given life as a new creation, even a life-giving spirit within himself. He is our Lord, Master, and King and was put above all else. He now sits at the right hand of The Father awaiting his enemies to be put under his foot. As Thomas said in John 20:28, “Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!"

JESUS IS GOD, and our Messiah. Jesus was created a man when The Holy Spirit infused Mary's womb with THE WORD. The Holy Spirit infused her womb with the WORD of God who is GOD. The WORD was not created and so the Pre-Jesus was NOT created. He is the Son of God and the Son of Man. Only the blended person named Jesus was both fully Man and fully God. There are a lot of people that think differently about the deity of Jesus and what the Bible says or does not say. What is important is that you understand HE has been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18.) He said if you’ve seen him, you’ve seen The Father. He is our king, our shepherd, our redeemer, our comfort, our mediator, and our God. He is the first and last to time indefinite and is the only agent of salvation. It’s good to talk to him, he loves you and listens to those that speak to him.